Adam Wintz: 0:07

Less than 2000

Chad Bishoff: 0:09

the podcast

Adam Wintz: 0:11

Was I too nice to MC Hammer?

Chad Bishoff: 0:13

You were absolutely two nice... after what you did to poor Bill Murray. You're now completely pro nice to MC Hammer.

Adam Wintz: 0:25

I think my performance review might have had something to do with that.

Chad Bishoff: 0:28

I think so.

Adam Wintz: 0:29

So LL Cool J is not getting spared today just so happens LL Cool J is pretty damn cool

Chad Bishoff: 0:35

we yeah that's that's a problem he actually is cool. I don't exactly like his name. You know, ladies love Cool J But

Adam Wintz: 0:41

cool, James,

Chad Bishoff: 0:42

you know, but, you know, it's, it is what it is and you know, it works for him. That's okay,

Adam Wintz: 0:48

so specifically, we're going to talk about LL Cool J going hard as MC Hammer went hard for one album, and it completely tanked. Not just that album, but pretty much his whole career, although it was pretty much dead anyway, by that time. LL Cool J was able to come back and actually better than he ever was before

Chad Bishoff: 1:06

come back? LL Cool J never stopped.

Adam Wintz: 1:09

Well, except for 14 shots to the dome is one album that nobody ever talks about.

Chad Bishoff: 1:15

The irony is I actually really liked 14 shots to the dome. I thought that was great.

Adam Wintz: 1:19

Let's go back to his 80s career when he first started out, you know, he started before MC Hammer. He started in the early to mid 80s. And it was a big deal.

Chad Bishoff: 1:28

Yeah, I mean, again, I know his first album radio, not as huge of a fan of it. But you know, it was kind of before my time

Adam Wintz: 1:34

you know his 80s stuff just was so what's the word just so minimalist, and I know Rick Rubin was the producer of all that stuff Def Jam his early stuff. Rick Rubin, who's a legend an icon is co founder of Def Jam and did Beastie Boys and all that early on stuff and really was the pioneer of the

Chad Bishoff: 1:55

yea but LL Cool J save def at Def Jam was early struggling label. I mean, it was it was practically bankrupt. I can't live without my radio and Rock the Bells saved Def Jam for some reason. But we were just talking about this last week. Rap back then was very simple. You can't say oh, it was simple. It was all simple.

Adam Wintz: 2:19

You're right and Rick Rubin was known as the greatest I don't remember who was the artist that called him this was but he was the great greatest reducer, not producer reducer because he would just strip everything down to that very, very basic, you know, drumbeat and talking

Chad Bishoff: 2:38

you know what I wish somebody today would be a reducer all this stuff is so overproduced so synthesized so fake auto tune everything we need to reducer you know what screw producers we need a reducer that's what needs to happen we need to start fighting for more reducers in the music industry

Adam Wintz: 2:58

so what was that what was the I don't think the album was called bad but there was an album of him on the front cover that said bad

Chad Bishoff: 3:05

bigger and deffer but everybody thought the album was bad yeah, but it was actually bigger and deffer but the the front of the album was literally LL Cool J a parental advisory warning and then bad and again, but the album was called bigger and deffer

Adam Wintz: 3:17

with the fashion with those those those hats and the high sneakers and all that stuff. It was classic.

Chad Bishoff: 3:23

He was It was amazing. I mean, if you're going to try to say that MC Hammer had a better fashion was a bigger fashion icon than LL Cool J I'll reach across the table and punch

Adam Wintz: 3:34

Let's I'm not going to say that. Let's let's derail you in the face. the discussion real quick and say, you know, I'm sorry, but Rock the Bells on on Sirius XM that ruined the station when it was backspin back in the day, that was awesome that the mix is better you know?

Chad Bishoff: 3:54

backspin was was a way better station channel as a whole I love LL Cool J I've listened to his stuff for decades now. But I'm sorry rock the bells radio so no, no is like really? Okay. Come on out of everything out of his whole career. Why Rock the Bells radio? I mean, there's so many other catchy I'd rather have them use something from 14 shots to the dome than Rock the Bells.

Adam Wintz: 4:22

Yeah, mama said would be a good one. And that's where his career really started for me. Mama said knock you out that tape again. I remember having that tape and just holding it to cassette. The cassette was just such a cool thing. Such a cool cover like shirtless, sweaty, and just badass really. And the tape was incredible. It was not produced by Rick Rubin it was Marley Maril was the producer and and just took it to a new level is harder and deeper. A richer tone. Like just this this awesome. Just tone to the whole thing was set it apart. From his 80s stuff

Chad Bishoff: 5:00

he needed he didn't need another reducer. I mean that that's why it sounded better. But you completely skipped over walking with a panther. Was that an album? 1989 That's the album that came out right before Mama said knock you out.

Adam Wintz: 5:16

As I said, his career for me started in 1990 with momma said

Chad Bishoff: 5:19

you missed an entire album. You went back to bad or see I'm still calling it bad, bad and radio. But no, that's where he had going back to Cali. I mean, in that song, that that ultimately was a song that that I think really moved his career it started putting stuff into into into a different light. The music started getting a little bit more produced. It was just a little bit better. I mean, people have used I mean, they still play that song as as one of his big hits today.

Adam Wintz: 5:48

You know, ll had much more street cred than MC Hammer no doubt about it. I mean, his father shot his mother and his grandfather and LL Cool J found them I mean so when he was four years old so so he's got street cred

Chad Bishoff: 6:08

which is why he grew up in his the his grandma's basement, right as he proudly said, when you're a kid you're like, why is he growing up in grandma's basement? You hear the real story to go like Oh, that's actually really sad.

Adam Wintz: 6:20

And he was he was a star as a 16 year old I think it was his grandpa bought him a beatbox machine and he was already like, you know doing it as a teenager so I mean, he was so so cool like naturally just a cool dude and so smooth and

Unknown: 6:35

But still the name ladies love what does it ladies love ladies James cool James I mean you know like

Adam Wintz: 6:42

I think that's you know, LL for short.

Chad Bishoff: 6:45

Well I mean thank God he went with ll If he was releasing ladies love cool James as like the his actual full name on albums. Nobody would have bought his stuff.

Adam Wintz: 6:56

You know, he was so talented in terms of I mean, he can straight up rap. I mean, mama said knock you out that that album like he could do he could slay people of the song. While there's boom boom n system and murder gram. Were pretty hard. And you know his later transition to 14 shots on the dome, but we'll focus on this episode.

Chad Bishoff: 7:18

See I love the booting system. And when they played booming system in the hard way. the Michael J. Fox movie. I was like, yes, that is dope. I love it. I probably didn't use dope as a, you know, 14 year old.

Adam Wintz: 7:32

His transition to the more gangster style is much more natural. Let's just put it that way.

Chad Bishoff: 7:36

My favorite was biography.com that basically said that this album was when he went more street. He didn't go gangsta. This was his street album

Adam Wintz: 7:46

It was very street but it still had that old school hip hop vibe to it. Like he'd like just murdered Kool Moe Dee. I don't know what his deal is with Kool Moe Dee but he just like slayed him verbally like now how cool is that? And compare that to the rap feuds of the 90s where people were getting shot mother^%$# were getting wasted over this. Okay, two people were dying got you know, ended up dead over the you know, East Coast West Coast crap. And back in the day,

Chad Bishoff: 8:15

LL was singing I need love

Adam Wintz: 8:17

you because he's singing I need love but he would he would dis you know, his rivals like Kool Moe Dee

Chad Bishoff: 8:23

unlike MC Hammer, who miserably failed at evolving because he tried to change his image overnight. ll gradually changed. As times went on, he evolved with the times which is why he is a way more popular artist with way more longevity than somebody like hammer. I don't I can't even believe we're putting them in. I can't even believe MC Hammer and LL Cool. J were even put in the same topic originally. Because they don't even deserve to be in, one is like something that you know, that was like, Oh, this is fun. And you would want to like you know, jump up in the club. And then and then there was LL Cool J

Adam Wintz: 8:59

hold on. Hold on. LL Cool. J had all that he had the party music he had he had the rap kind of you know, happy go lucky 80s stuff too. I mean,

Chad Bishoff: 9:09

hardly.

Adam Wintz: 9:10

I'm bad. And just you know

Chad Bishoff: 9:12

that's not that's not no that's not him. That's not club music. That was That was him being get your 14 shots to the dome was not to me wasn't when he went gangsta. He started hard. He started hard, then actually went softer. He went softer, and all of a sudden he drops I need love on a second album. And then all of a sudden you're getting into Mama said knock you out which you know was

Adam Wintz: 9:37

I need love was terrible.

Chad Bishoff: 9:39

I'm not saying it was a good song. I'm just saying he started kind of going. I'm a nice guy mixed with, you know, some cool stuff to say. And it wasn't there until he got to Mr. Smith, where he finally went to me that's where he changed. You know, 14 shots of the dome. Yes. They called it the the more gangsta album but no he Bad all this other stuff all the way up and then and then Mr. Smith comes out and it's like you know what? Nope all romance let's just go ahead and we're gonna do doing it and hey lover with boys two men he completely changed Mr. Smith is where he did what MC Hammer did except that he was bringing you to this point over the course of years starting in a separate second album so it didn't feel weird it missed us like an evolution

Adam Wintz: 10:28

Mr. Smith is is really where he really came into his own and develop the sound I mean Mama said knock you out as his best one I think but I mean Mr. Smith is where he became the LL Cool J we all know and love you know that more smooth r&b style mainly you know a lot of sex but a lot of that goes back to again going back to Mama said knock you out the songs milky cereal and jingling baby his trademark sex songs you know milky cereal

Chad Bishoff: 10:53

I mean six minutes of pleasure

Adam Wintz: 10:54

six minutes of pleasure exactly.

Chad Bishoff: 10:56

I have a feeling I don't remember it now that I'm looking at it but I have a feeling illegal search is not about you know police brutality

Adam Wintz: 11:04

no it is yeah that that one is that one is a is

Chad Bishoff: 11:09

it's not it's not a it's not a it's not a sex

Adam Wintz: 11:11

actually if you believe it or not the song to thing the break of dawn I would think that's about sex right to the break dawn I'm up all night banging her till the break of dawn right it's not it's not it's it's another talking song where he's talking bad another rappers including get this MC Hammer. And this is where there was a small little feud between LL Cool J and MC Hammer and it all started with a hammers 1988 album. And he had one line in it he said something along the lines of I'm the baddest there is I'm bddder than DJ Ron and ll that's all he said. And then you know, he's just he's not saying LL Cool J sucks. He's just saying I'm the best rapper right and this set lol off this set ll he had this big long diatribe. I mean this huge paragraphs upon paragraphs of just ^&%* all over MC Hammer and saying things like my gym teacher ain't supposed to be a rapper and calling him Stanley and like just totally calling him out like it's all good it was all part of the you know old school rap Hip Hop type battle, you know, like Beat Street back in the day when they used to like break dance instead of how gang warfare but I mean it's it's it's pretty funny to hear them talk crap.

Chad Bishoff: 12:27

You know, I think only if you actually know anything deep about these artists. Would you actually know that? I mean, when you think about what happened with with NWA and when ice cube broke off? now that is real beef wrapping. That is where they are going to tear you down. rip you to shreds. %&^$ your world up? No, I'm harder than ll all of a sudden sets ll off it's

Adam Wintz: 12:56

just trashed him.

Chad Bishoff: 12:57

I mean, that's like every fight we've ever had I mad at you. And then that's it. It's over and done with

Adam Wintz: 13:02

it. It was it was it was pretty funny to just see wow, they had a beef and yeah, they did. And it's it was all in good fun. But it was like, you know, man, you better be careful when you come at ll because he'll come back. And really, I mean, he's very creative. He wrote all of his own stuff. He could just slay you verbally. And he did

Chad Bishoff: 13:20

I love 14 shots to the dome. And the reason is, that was the first real album Mama said knock you out. And 14 shots to the dome. Those are the album's I knew and it was like produced not reduced. It sounded cool. I'm sorry, how I'm coming. Awesome. you know, ain't no stopping this awesome Crossroads brought it down and made you feel something. There were so many things in this album that were cool to me and sounded awesome.

Adam Wintz: 13:51

I still I still remember vividly coming over to your house and hearing it for the first time and when you put on 14 shots of the dome and the first song how I'm coming it was mind blowing. I was I was blown away by how hard it was and how lively it was and intense and and like you said well produced and again you put in a CD. And that was you know pretty cool too. That's the first time I heard it and it stuck with me. I will say I love that song. But I'm sorry the the rest of the album we'll get into it by I don't know.

Chad Bishoff: 14:24

Yeah, but see you i love it again you're sitting you say like oh man the first time I heard that it was like so hard. And it's like my first CD which would have been shortly before this was you know Public Enemies greatest misses you know with the target on the front. I'm sorry Public Enemy is hard. Public Enemy has a purpose. Their music was was liberation and speaking out against injustice. 14 shots to the dome. Didn't really do that. It was like listening to your It was like listening to your grandma talk about how bad things were.

Adam Wintz: 15:03

Well that's funny you mentioned that because I love it as much as I love how it's coming it's it's marred by lyrics like word to your grandmother. He actually says that word to your grandma a couple a couple other lines"boom Blau Batman bang pow" he actually says that and that that's a lyric in this gangsta rap song

Chad Bishoff: 15:23

I just got chills bro. I can't even do that with I can't even make a straight face with that

Adam Wintz: 15:27

you know when you when you hear when you hear you

Chad Bishoff: 15:28

you clearly don't know ll! know word to your grandmother in the same song as songs about murdering you with your nine and your banana clip. I just don't know i It's like his great song but it's just a little bit in between for me what the hell is up with pink cookies in a plastic bag being crushed by buildings? What is that what title is that? What is that song about

Adam Wintz: 15:55

And unlike unlike MC Hammer who I've seen live twice including my first concert ever. I have not seen a live and but I My best memory of any live LL Cool J experience was at your wedding. And I mentioned this to you earlier and you didn't seem to remember you were it was at the very very end of your reception.

Chad Bishoff: 16:17

Well that makes sense

Adam Wintz: 16:18

that definitely man definitely and you and you are gone you had like disappeared who knew you know trying to find people rights homes

Chad Bishoff: 16:25

not overly drunk. He meant out the door

Adam Wintz: 16:28

no Yeah, out the door. You were not present, as soon as the first beat hit to to Mama said knock you out. You come running. And I'm not kidding you in your full on tuxedo and you do the full rap. I mean, you have like a circle around you. And you are singing it word for word.

Chad Bishoff: 16:48

And I didn't I didn't miss a beat?

Adam Wintz: 16:50

didn't miss a word. It was amazing. I thought I knew a lot of those lyrics. But you had it like the whole way and that was like that was probably

Chad Bishoff: 16:57

you know, that's what happens when you have the you know, when you're that drunk zone. You don't have to think about the lyrics. It just it just came out.

Adam Wintz: 17:05

So what have we learned today? MC Hammer is not as cool as LL Cool J

Chad Bishoff: 17:09

So yeah, so we learned a few things over the last couple of weeks. LL Cool J and MC Hammer never deserve to be in the same conversation ever again. Period bow tied.