David Lynch’s Lost Highway

Intro: 0:00

Take a time machine back to before the world went to hell, around the year 2000.

Chad Bishoff: 0:07

The 80s and 90s were so rad.

Adam Wintz: 0:10

The movies, the music, the TV, the games, that's what I want to talk about.

Intro: 0:14

Like can subscribe on your favorite podcast app and continue the conversation on Facebook and Instagram. And if you're cool enough, join the show on Patreon for exclusive bonus content. And now less than 2000 with Adam Wintz, and Chad Bishoff.

Adam Wintz: 0:38

Less than 2000

Chad Bishoff: 0:39

Now part of the HyperX Podcast Network. The jury has to make a decision maybe I should restart that jury. Today.Hey, hey, people have a stuttering problem sometimes it's not me though.

Adam Wintz: 0:59

I um, a lot on the show. I've noticed my mind works faster than my mouth so

Chad Bishoff: 1:05

and and then you get to the point Yeah, exactly. Lost Highway comes out in in what was considered the LOL of his career. They manage David Lynch's. Yes. And what's interesting is, and this is why I'm excited we're talking about this is I watched this a few three years ago, four years ago, and I had not seen it before. That was when I was young. And then I watched it again last night in preparation for this. And so I've really tried to go back and and put a different hat on on this film, because I know that you wrote your college thesis project around David Lynch and and had studied some of his work from a cinematic perspective, we've talked about twin peaks on the show, and to realize that his his, that he'd had kind of a lull in his career around this time, and that this film becomes equally revered as WTF man to use a phrase of post 2000 That I'm excited to talk about this today, because we're, I'm gonna put a different hat on, and I want you to look at things from a different perspective. And go down this path today.

Adam Wintz: 2:33

Well, I, my number one question. Is, is Lost Highway, a good film? And you don't have to answer now. I remember watching this four years ago, two nights in a row, I want you to two nights back to back and saying I can't tell if this is a great movie, or if it's a bad movie.

Chad Bishoff: 3:00

literally you you really love David Lynch though, right?

Adam Wintz: 3:08

Absolutely.

Chad Bishoff: 3:09

Okay. And I know your thesis project. I think it wasn't really on this movie. It was kind of on his career and also like Twin Peaks and a lot of a lot of his other movies.

Adam Wintz: 3:19

It is and I'm going to read a selection from it Right? today. And yes, it focused on his heyday, from Blue Velvet through Lost Highway and Lost Highway just kind of mentioned in passing because his big peak was 86 to 92 - 93.

Chad Bishoff: 3:34

Correct? Correct, which is why they consider this 100% agree. 100% agree, especially the lighting. Yeah, to be the lull, which is why I think this film is is completely debatable. What can't be debated is that Peter Demming is an amazing use of lighting and shadow and chia Skaro lighting? amazing cinematographer. And that this film, in true Lynch fashion, has some of the most wonderful cinematography I mean the colors, his use of of shadows, and the contrast the filming the set designs and all that stuff. That in and of itself. Is is amazing. I mean it is incredible cinematography Would you not agree? And Chia Skaro lighting for those who are uninitiated as the contrast between the light and dark on on the screen. And so lots of the duality of man, Dark Half light half red light blue light, soft rattlers. And thank you because you probably... I bet the majority of people didn't know that listening to this episode today. So I'm pumped that you filled them in on that because you you did, though you wear the lawyer card. You went to film school, and took some film theory and some film editing and style and, and history and all that stuff, right?

Adam Wintz: 5:03

Mm hmm.

Chad Bishoff: 5:04

I asked it as a question. I actually know you did,

Adam Wintz: 5:07

Thanks for establishing my credibility with the, with the audience

Chad Bishoff: 5:11

I know you actually have credibility. I mean, that's the thing and you've studied it. So and I hadn't I just kind of went through the ride I love the work. But But But I, one of the things that I want to say, in this viewing was I paid attention to everything that wasn't being said. And in the past, I usually am drawn in I'm very character driven person, even when you look at some of my demo reel stuff, it's always filled with people, I'm driven by, by people and character and all that kind of stuff. But it usually involve talking, and all that. And so one of the things that that really, that really shocked me is this is a fantastic movie, in very little can be said, the dialogue doesn't have to be good. And you can get 90% of the movie, simply from the the looks on the actor's faces, the props that they're interacting with, and the shadowing and the contrast and all that kind of stuff. I mean, so much can be said about, about Pullman standing on the second level, and just peering out in the daylight amongst his neighborhood, or being able to not have to say, and I know they get into it more later, but just simply putting a saxophone in a case. It's a glimpse of it. But you don't have to, you don't have to say you know exactly who this person is that he's a musician. I love I love the in betweens. And and I think David Lynch does better at the in betweens about what happens in between dialogue, then than a lot of directors.

Adam Wintz: 6:59

It's a well made point. And and I think it's curious because I'm with you. Most of the stuff that I write, or that I'm drawn to, is generally character driven, with people with motivation, snappy dialogue, the the musical sound of people talking, the emphasis, all of that stuff, the characters, their fleshed out backstory, and everything like that. So it's interesting that I am drawn so much to this because and Lynch in general, because Lynch's characters aren't really people know, none of exactly. They're not characters. They're more like archetypes. They're more like, vessels to put thoughts and emotions and symbols on in the end. They're not really people like, what are the main characters? backstories Okay, one's a musician. But what is Patricia Arquette? Like? What is? What's her, you get glimpses of it, but they're not like fully fleshed out characters that feel real, because they're not and they're never meant to be. It goes back to lynch wanting to see his paintings come to life, wanting to see his dreams on screen. And so taking a man

Chad Bishoff: 8:15

and his fears and his fears and, and and so many of the other other layers that are in this film that go on.

Adam Wintz: 8:22

Yeah, yeah. So so that they're just, they're just, in many ways, the actors and the characters they play are are just part of the set are part of just the scene. They are not real people. And I think he points. what's so fascinating to me about Lynch's work is that it's not about realism, in any sense of the word no. And it's not really even about a tangible point that he's trying to make. He's just trying to elicit emotion, confusion, and uncanny uncomfortable. Why does this kind of give me a weird feeling? And really just me

Chad Bishoff: 9:06

It scared me It scared me last night, I was sitting in the dark, watching this movie, in surround sound. And it's amazing. Even something as simple as that as the they put in the VHS tape in the beginning and the TV comes on. And they're just watching the little pan across the house and then eventually coming in. And you just turn that one sound and I'm like, induced anxiety induced a feeling that that I haven't been able to explain before. Right? When when watching it casually, or watching it. You know, you know, I mean? No shock that sometimes when we recap the show, we're watching it, you know, at our desks or we're, you know, it's hard to it's do the show and rewatch, and listen to every single minute of every single thing we talked about. And some things we don't need to but this, I specifically want to draw attention that I watched this film. And I guess I as a, as a desensitized youth, there wasn't anything particularly haunting about it at at 15. It's particularly haunting at 40, you know what I mean? And, and that's something I noticed right away is there was a deeper connection to the psychology behind what the images were portraying. And then going deeper into the the theories of, you know, of schizophrenia. And I just, I wrote this line and this line, I'm gonna, I'm gonna stamp, I'm gonna have to live with this line forever. "I like to remember things the way I remember them, not the way they happened." and that was his response, when the detectives were talking about the video clip, "you have a video camera in the house." And then you go down this whole other path of the movie. And I just those words stuck with me the entire time. And, and so I saw you pick up your notebook. So I don't want to go on anymore on that yet. But were you gonna say something from something you had written down

Adam Wintz: 11:33

that line? That line is the key to the whole movie. That line and and before we go much further, I do want to say we're going to talk about spoilers the whole way through. However, I will say this. This is the type of movie where I think it's okay to know what's going on. And in fact, I appreciated it more once, I mean, when I was when I saw it for the first time, I had no idea what was going on. When I saw it for my my freshman year of college in a dorm room. For the second time, I had no idea what was going on. And we went online to see what the hell this movie was trying to say. What did this all mean? And then once once you put the pieces together, it makes sense. So you've got to spoil it but

Chad Bishoff: 12:28

people still argue today that that that this film, still has different theories

Adam Wintz: 12:35

it very much does.

Chad Bishoff: 12:37

So ultimately, like any spoiler that we would give, doesn't really spoil an ending. It doesn't even really spoil much because having that knowledge of what's going on, it isn't necessarily bad to the experience.

Adam Wintz: 12:54

third of the movie or so is it's a little more than a third of the movie, but it's it's basically Bill Pullman and Patricia Arquette in their domestic lives and it is has so much tension to it, I guess. I don't know. I guess we were probably too young when it came out to really fully appreciate the domestic mess. But Bill Pullman is creepy. so creepy in the way he you know, I mentioned on the show, when we did Spaceballs, I can't see him as anything other than Lone Star. Or, you know, even when he was president in Independence Day, I still saw him as lone star.

Chad Bishoff: 13:38

But what's crazy is Didn't he look younger in Lost Highway than he did in Spaceballs? Which would have been 10 years or so earlier.

Adam Wintz: 13:48

Yes.

Chad Bishoff: 13:49

Like he looks so young in this movie. I'm like, Wait, is that Bill Pullman it is.

Adam Wintz: 13:53

He had a great performance and his in the directing and the cinematography, and the soundtrack all really pulled that together, just the way that he would lean into her. I think there's, there's a long period of time where there's no dialogue at all. And then 5-10 minutes goes by, and if I'm not mistaken, the first line is spoken by Patricia Arquette, and she says, You don't mind that I'm not coming with you to the club tonight do you?And this this whole scene could have taken place in 30 seconds. But it drags out over three minutes or so. Because he's because he's like, No, I'm okay with that. But you know, he's not okay with it. he clearly suspects her. And he's like, Well, what are you going to do and she goes read and then the way he walks over to her and leans into her and kind of pins her against the wall almost with his hand you know, not physically restraining her but just the the tension in that round traffic grab most and leaning in and his creepy little And he just goes, read what? This girl has never read a book in front of him in his life. And that was like the most absurd excuse she could have thought of correct and she doesn't answer it. She just looks away.

AD: 15:15

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Adam Wintz: 16:41

I mentioned this to you when I watched the screening of your film that your film reminds me of their parts of it, especially the first part of your movie. Remind me Gives me a lost highway feel because of the tension. Because of the the quiet. The lack of dialogue, the the way it takes its time to allow things to unfold and to leave the audience alone with their own thoughts. I can't emphasize that enough as to why I love Kubrick, Kubrick and Lynch so much is they give you time to think they're not just beating you over the head with images and sound and telling you stuff totally. It's got it gives us and it goes to the jaws principle of the mind is creepier than on a percent showing something

Chad Bishoff: 17:39

no and then and I think that's that's what great cinema did of decades past and and there was so much of that of that quiet tension. And I think that's why you mentioned it to me and and and at the time. I hadn't seen this in a while. Like, really? I yeah, there's quite a sense of going back and seeing it. It's funny, it made me appreciate this movie more we're going to get to the is it a good movie or not? But I will say this one of the things that I appreciated more now was that the music that he chose the music that was in it like from Manson's lyrics you know, Manson you know he's sitting there and you know he's watching the spider crawl and the moths are flopping around and he's just alone and the Lyric is you got something I can never reach And he's sitting alone after this whole witnessing of all of this of the of the first half of the movie and he's sitting in the in the dark cell right and the moths are flying around and he's trapped and he's he's whether that's a metaphor for in his mind or whatever. And and the ugly the spiders the moths and then you have Manson singing you got something I can never you can I can never reach and and what's interesting is like that lyric said more in that scene than some of the dialogue, like that musical line said as much as I like to remember things the way I remembered them, not the way they happened. You know? And it was you know, musical line,

Adam Wintz: 19:26

you know, who put the the, not the original score together, but the soundtrack with the original music, Trent Reznor, Trent Reznor, that's right. This was Trent. He also did it for Natural Born Killers. But this was he was like the the supervisor or whatever of the the soundtrack of the of the rock song so to speak, not the score, which come to think of it, there wasn't much of a score.

Chad Bishoff: 19:55

I mean, it was it was a lot. It was a lot of music. And before we go on, I I need to, I need to back it up a bit and saying, Thank you for the kind words on my film I have, it's hard for me to talk about right now because it's not out, you're one of the few people have had a chance to see it. It's been beta test with a few audiences. And that's it. And so to hear to hear you say that I'm very happy, I would never claim to be in a in a in a lynch level. You know, whatever, but, but thank you, and your notes and your early comments, even in the writing phase, were a huge help to me.

Adam Wintz: 20:37

Are you gonna Are you gonna cut out that thank you have this episode like you did last one.

Chad Bishoff: 20:43

Oh for sure, Only Patreon will get to hear me actually give you praise

Adam Wintz: 20:48

Chad, you're a brilliant writer here. All this stuff. You know what ice cube was an NWA. Like, no acknowledgement.

Chad Bishoff: 20:58

The thing that Lynch does expertly is, is he gets you into a rhythm. He gets you into that rhythm of like, you're expecting something. I mean, it's it's, I'm pretty certain Hitchcock was was an inspiration to, you know, to lynch the theater of the mind. But but David Lynch takes that to a whole nother level. Because he'll, he'll elongate on something that makes you feel like, oh, that's going to happen. And then it doesn't. But then it keeps elongating and you're like, Oh, well, maybe that won't happen. But then it keeps elongating. And you're like, oh my god, what the what's gonna happen? And then sometimes he gives it to you, and sometimes he doesn't. And that's what makes the journey the lynch journey, I think so exciting is because even though he's rhythmically building tension and getting you to feel something, you know, he doesn't always, it doesn't always pay off. He doesn't always give it to you, right, like cutting away from the hallway. But then back to the hallway. And you're like, why am I back on the hallway? Oh, my God, there he is, you know what I mean? Like, there's he lets the lets that build, and he doesn't give you the answer, or the moment or the reaction, when you think you should,

Adam Wintz: 22:16

again, observe a perverting and inverting familiar images. We are trained from a very early age watching cinema and TV to expect things you expect to jumpscare there. You expect it all, and he doesn't provide it. And then the movie takes off in a completely different trajectory. And then there's maybe a 10 minute sequence, and then completely different movie career, like, what the is all of this. And now it's happy and bright. And suddenly, we're outside.

Chad Bishoff: 22:51

Which, which that part's great. But then, but then I feel like where the tension starts to build again, and this is great is not through the typical style, you can't tell me that one of the best parts of the movie, from an excitement level standpoint, is that awesome tailgating scene, when the car is riding his tail, and he, he waves him on and then the driver comes by and flicks him off. And then again, the in betweens, no dialogue, it cuts to the back seat. And the two, the two henchmen just buckle up without saying a word. And they take us off, ramming the guy in the car, almost throwing them off the cliff, and then pummeling them all him in the face, but only to get back in the car with Pete. And go. Sorry about that, Pete, but Tailgating is one thing I cannot stand and then drives off like, well, you're gonna beat somebody almost to death. But it's because you can't stand tailgating. But the best thing is, is being played this being shot in LA, there is not a single driver in LA, or any major city and and its even reached the Midwest, where somebody isn't riding your ass a little too close. So he's giving you the I wish I could do that. I wish I could take my car and nearly run somebody off the road for almost, because as he's beating and he's going you could have hit me. You could be as he was hitting him. So like, it's that contrast. It's the contrast of the excitement and now the adrenaline and the and instead of it being the slow tension. It's violent, and it's gritty and it's and it's like, I want to do that. But then to bring it down and apologize for the very same thing that you can't stand is funny.

Adam Wintz: 24:45

That says so much about the character too because you know, he's a he's nice guy Eddie. He's Mr. Eddie. but he's got this. You get the sense right away about how dangerous and volatile he could. And I and I love that that whole sequence because it starts with Just He's an old man getting his car work done and he wants the best mechanic Pete to come along and feel the car and find out what needs to be tweaked to get it working at top performance. And as he's driving through the hills in LA, the one way windy roads in Mulholland or wherever and he's like, any you've got that David Lynch soundtrack. You've got that Twin Peaks like It's like soft jazz. And it felt like Twin Peaks and he's just like out for Sunday's drive is like I just love this. Robert Blake as the and a man from an unknown place, or I don't even know what his character's name

Chad Bishoff: 25:47

I don't know, I don't know what his character is... name is. But he's, so he's, he's the schizophrenia voice. He is the voice and the controlling factor of both both bizarre and Pullman's, you know, Bill Pullman's character. That's why at the end, you know, when he's given money, when all of a sudden a knife shows up, or after he, after he kills Eddie, and the guy's gone. Theory, no, spoiler alert, because no one really knows is that, you know, with with Bill Pullman, his character is suffering from schizophrenia, and then being paranoid, and, and his wife, blatantly cheating, even though it's, you know, kind of mysterious. And, and, and, and, you know, kills her in theory, even though nobody knows if that's real or not, either. Because, is he really in the prison or not? Nobody really knows. But the idea of the mind, and this is where the psychology of this I think, really, what excited me the most in this viewing is, is this movie, viewed one way by a certain audience is just going to be lost and have no clue what's going on. And they're going to think surface. on the other hand of this, this is a statement of mental health. This these are people. I mean, this is a statement on not the psyche, not trusting what's going on, not believing what's around you. And I think at its core, I think the ideology behind this movie and the real the my thought the statement I wrote independently from this was people live their lives through their own lens, not what's real. And, and and the last my take on

Adam Wintz: 27:47

it, yes, in the lens can be distorted. Read what happens to your perception and your reality from that. I mean, that's, that's a great takeaway, I think. I'll just say what my theory of the plot is, and what I think is the most commonly accepted theory, David Lynch has made no, the one thing he has definitively said is that he was inspired by the OJ trial to write this. And he wanted to know how a successful rich celebrity could kill his wife.

Chad Bishoff: 28:22

So really, Pullman killed killed his wife and that is the start of the movie.

Adam Wintz: 28:27

Yeah, yeah. So So basically, what what is, quote, real is the Fred and dark haired Patricia Arquette, he suspects her of cheating. When I was growing up, I always thought that she was cheating and I always kind of took his side in my mind. Now, I'm not sure about that. I don't I think he's just a creep and paranoid and they have sort of a weird, loveless marriage, sexless, loveless marriage. But I don't think there's anything definitive that she was certainly cheating on him. But because of the mental health and the flawed lens that he's looking through everything. He thinks she is cheating. He's she said she wasn't gonna go to the club. He's playing the saxophone. He thinks he sees her in the crowd with a guy. But he calls her home. It's late at night. She doesn't answer he goes home. She's there in bed asleep, great. But his paranoia, his flawed lens led him to ultimately kill her. And then he goes to death row. Everything with both Azhar Getty is in Pete and all that is all in his mind is all the story that he told himself because remember, you kept having headaches and oh my god, my head's hurting. That was his way of a disassociated personality disorder, where he disassociated from who he really is and created this fantasy life, where he met when he was younger. He remember Pete got lots of girls He was popular and and he eventually got Patricia Arquette a different slightly different version of her a blonde version younger that more femme fatale version of her. But it involved her stealing him away from this guy because there was a very, very brief moment on their way home from the party in the quote, real part of the story where she says, where he says, oh, you know, he helped me get some job. What job and she Oh, I don't remember. Well, from that he came up with this whole thing about she was doing porn. She was doing prostitution. She was forced into this life by this evil bad guy. Nice Guy, Eddie, kind of guy. So he's got to steal his girl. He's got to kill the bad guy. And they've got to run off and do a sort of a True Romance life together. Yep. But he can't maintain that fantasy so long. See to me Robert Blake's character whose character's name is mystery man, by the way, mystery man represents reality. He Reppert he's got the camera. He shows up with the camera and is like, what do you think I'm looking at? Or what does he say? The camera is like shining it right?

Chad Bishoff: 31:11

And then he's chasing him with it recording. She's getting into the car trying to get away.

Adam Wintz: 31:16

And he's like, no face reality face what you've done. And so so the lost highway is the disassociated personality and you know, the very very end of the movie, where Bill Pullman is in the car and he's is being chased by the police and then it starts flashing. That's supposedly him being in the electric chair and and dying.

Chad Bishoff: 31:36

Okay, you know, what's funny is now that I know this, it really is clear to me. David Lynch thinks OJ is guilty. It's plain as day. It's right there in Lost Highway.

Adam Wintz: 31:52

I'm going to add add to that by by quoting from Mr. Lynch in from my college paper from 2004. Right? American audiences who were used to being coddled by Hollywood, were frustrated with the open endedness of his plots, as Lynch said, of Lost Highway. If you put a little vagueness into a film, people wonder what's going on. But sometimes it isn't as it's necessary, done right. It could drive people wild in a good way and inspiring way. This is Lynch's ultimate imperative to infuriate to confound and to challenge viewers to make up their own minds about what's happening in the plot, to implore them to look deeper, and to question the movie to question Lynch himself. Further, he hopes to encourage people to question not only themselves, but also the nature of all meaning and signification. he relishes the moments of Uncanny and sublime ambiguity, he hopes it makes people uncomfortable and uncertain.

Chad Bishoff: 32:56

David Lynch is one of the very few and probably the master director at doing experimental film, with the a level actors that can actually get people to come and see them. If you're at all interested in the history of cinema in and of itself, you need to see this film. And that's probably the recommendation I would give. Because if you don't care, yes, sit this one out, because it's gonna piss you off.

Adam Wintz: 33:31

stopping just short of saying it's a good film. But it's an important film. And if you like cinema, and you like anything, Lynch or Kubrick, this is see this movie this is on See you see this movie. So I hope you've enjoyed the discussion, everybody. And I hope you don't kill your wife in a jealous rage thinking she's cheating on you. Would you talk to me about that beforehand?

Chad Bishoff: 33:57

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, if I, if I if I'm ever holding the knife, I'll call you first.

Adam Wintz: 34:04

I'll be there. With a camera.